Thinking About Insteon Hub and Raspbery Pi (or another ARM like the Banana Pi)

[prax]

Hi all,

I am brand new to automation, and I have been researching as much information as possible the past few weeks. For now, I just want to set up a few lights so that I can control them with my android, but I like the idea of having something like a Raspberry Pi, Banana Pi, etc running 24/7 because I do not run my PC 24/7.

I am leaning towards Insteon (though I will consider Z-Wave) because at the moment, I only plan on changing 1-2 light switches to this:

http://www.smarthome.com/togglelinc-relay-insteon-2466sw-remote-control-on-off-switch-non-dimming-white.html

I do not like that the z wave on/off switches are all "fat" switches and not "regular" like the Insteon one. I have dozens of regular-sized switches in the house, so I think it would be awkward to have different looking switches, but it is just a minor issue at this point.

Anyway, I also saw that Insteon has some bulbs and I wouldn't have to get any sockets/switches if there was a bulb that I wanted to place somewhere.

I guess lately I have leaned towards that Insteon hub because I could buy myself two on-off switches, and the starter kit comes with either two dimmer modules or two on/off modules and I am picturing in my head the lights/lamps that I would use.

Now, I know that I could use my android phone to control the lights from the insteon hub when I am away from home, and that is the basic functionality that I want.

However, I also like the idea of having a 24/7 computer that interfaces with the insteon hub because I would like to set up some timers/events, such as if I am away on vacation or traveling on business, timing Christmas lights, etc.

I saw that there is a Jeannie solution with a Banana Pi, but I do not really understand its full capabilities. I am a noob when it comes to Linux, but I am willing to learn.

I am also a tech writer in software, so I would be willing to write up everything I learn in case it will help other noobs like me.

What would you recommend for a simple setup to control a few switches/lights from android, but if possible, to also set up timers... Insteon, Z-Wave, and what kind of single board Linux computer to add capabilities?

I saw that the Raspberry Pi has a Razberry board or you can use an Aeon Labs USB stick for z-wave, so I guess I am wondering how many things I would need to buy, in addition to my hub/switches.

I also just found this insteon usb stick... it would be cool if I could use that on a RPi/BPi/etc since it's much cheaper than a hub:

http://www.amazon.com/Insteon-2448A7-INSTEON-Portable-Adapter/dp/B0046V767Y/ref=sr_1_2?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1416324276&sr=1-2&keywords=insteon+usb

[RoChess]

You could get the Aeon-Labs or Philio Z-Wave modules like me that are super tiny and go behind any existing switch (or you can for example get LED touchscreen panels for the Aeon-Labs ones).

I'm using the Aeon-Labs 2nd generation dimmers myself ($42.75 each), and the Philio PAN04 dual-switch ($48 each). Both allow me to measure power usage as well, which might be interesting for you as well, and HomeGenie supports it.

You can turn your existing switches into the control switch for the Z-Wave module, and then of course also use your Z-Wave controller to automate that. Status updates are send back to the controller instantly, so HomeGenie reports the correct "on" status if you turn the light on via the manual switch, but polling support also exists incase of communication loss or restart of controller.

So unless you are extremly space limited behind your switch, then both modules would fit inside the junction box. Do keep in mind that the modules require full power. So in my case I was forced to remove the light switch in some locations, shorten the wires, and install the Z-Wave module inside the light fixture itself. This removes manual control, but the whole point for me was to automate things. If there is a power outage it would not work either way anyway, and when power is restored the Z-Wave modules auto return to previous state (even before controller resets them).

Was just not possible for me to run an extra wire to each switch junction box, because I'm in a rental place and when I leave I have to undo all my changes, and running the extra wire would have required breaking open the walls.

Check that first to see if you got Hot + Neutral + Switching wire in the junction box. Most modern house wiring has that, because outlets might be close and share the junction box via pass-through nuts.

The Aeon-Labs use low-voltage contacts for the manual switch input, so you can use like AWG22 to wire up the original switch you have. The Philio ones use high-voltage. Also the model of switch you show is what they used in this house, which I hate, so I replaced them with Leviton full sized ones, $15 for a box of 10 at HomeDepot constructor section. Had to get new cover plates as well, but they were $0.67 each or $1.19 for other variations.

Something for you to think about.

[Johnny H]

Hi,

I have HG running on the raspberry pi hardware with the z-wave usb stick and a wireless usb stick. I have 2 insteon light dimmers in the house that I started my "home auto" with, but never found a good app to control them, so they went wayside...... but then i fired up the 2413U and plugged it into HG and without a blink if found the 2 devices and was able to mange them, Not sure how far the insteon features go, but it seems to be working.

yah.. when it comes to switches they are a little fat, i'm having an issue with my front entrance where the bright person way back... decided to put a 5-gang rack of switches, and 3 of them I need to convert, but the fins on the switches are making it hard.

one of the suppliers mentioned that you can bend/remove the fins on some switches but that will decrease the power handling of the device..


Johnny

[prax]

Thanks for giving me something to think about.

For the 2413U, do you simply plug it into the RPi and then HG detects it?

I guess my most difficult task is finding the right controller. I am considering even the ISY994i since it seems to be going down in price.

[Johnny H]

yes, plugged it in and it detected the 2 devices. Sems only basic devices might be in it on;y,as these are dimmers and I can seem to control the dimming -- acting like a switch

[RoChess]

Considering the Insteon controller is $80 you might want to keep the following in mind.

Z-Wave USB controllers are $39.95 for the Aeon-Labs S2, used by many HomeGenie users, which has portable battery powered means to include/exclude Z-Wave modules by taking it to them directly. I never had to use that option myself as I am using many Z-Wave modules that act as mesh network repeaters, but it can be extremly useful for build-in modules that do not have a powerful signal, and need to be very close to the controller for the initial inclusion or exclusion later.

The Philio PAU01 Z-Wave USB dongle can be found even cheaper and exposes the PCB with pin-headers for deeper Pi integration, though in the end HomeGenie will control them all just fine via USB.

Banana Pi with case+power-supply - $50 (Aliexpress)
Aeon-Labs S2 USB Z-Wave controller - $40 (Amazon)
Aeon-Labs DSC26103-ZWUS switch - $34 (Amazon)
HomeGenie - $0
Automated home experience - PRICELESS

PS: The DSC26103-ZWUS switch does not offer Smart Energy reporting, but neither do the Insteon ones you linked.

[bkenobi]

There is a lot more to picking a technology than the price though.  If you don't have one picked out, there are lots to choose from and different pros/cons for each.  Of the ones you have listed in this thread (Insteon/X10/Zwave), there are things that would be good to keep in mind.

X10:
Pros

• cheap
• lots of installations around the world
• supported by lots of automation software
• uses power line and RF so wiring isn't as much of an issue
• 3rd party suppliers provide very good components (jvde.com for one)
• Choice of PLC and/or RF makes for more options of installation

Cons -

• Mfg went bankrupt and new company bought assets.  No way to know how they will fair in the long run
• Technology is 30+ years old and doesn't always like modern electronics
• Modern electronics often require filters to avoid noise/signal degredation
• RF signal is weak on many devices

Insteon:
Pros

• Supports X10 for cheap upgrade
• PLC and RF, but generally better than X10
• Every device is a repeater, so range is less of an issue
• Still manufactured by several parties, so good support
• Many devices are dual mode PLC/RF so they should work better with less hassle

Cons

• Same power line issues as X10
• Quite a bit more expensive than X10 of old, but similar price to modern X10

Zwave
Pros

• Modern system with lots of support
• Official equipment seems pricey, 3rd party seems pretty affordable

Cons

• RF only so range could be an issue depending on physical obstructions

I don't use zwave, so the list is short.  I've used X10 for several years and found there are solutions for most problems.  Insteon is somewhat of an extension of X10 and may be a good upgrade path from X10 if you choose that.  There are other options, but I don't know enough about them to help with pros/cons.

[kevin1]

FYI there is a new $40 Insteon hub out: INSTEON 2245-222 HUB

There aren't any reviews out yet, a least on the main page for it.

[prax]

FYI there is a new $40 Insteon hub out: INSTEON 2245-222 HUB

There aren't any reviews out yet, a least on the main page for it.

It's funny you mention it. I ordered it last week (saw it on their site), but I didn't use it yet. On black friday, I went to Best Buy and they had the insteon starter kit with hub plus two lamp dimmer modules for $90. I ordered the Hub II about 2 days before Best Buy had the deal so it was too late to cancel.

I figured I could sell the starter kit's hub.

Anyway, I have been playing around with insteon (2 dimmers and a couple LED bulbs I bought) and just with the android app. It's pretty cool, but inconsistent.

One of my modules works all the time. However, the other dimmer and the LED bulb (even though they have been in the SAME spot since I installed them!) do not always respond. It makes no sense to me. 

[RoChess]

One of my modules works all the time. However, the other dimmer and the LED bulb (even though they have been in the SAME spot since I installed them!) do not always respond. It makes no sense to me. 

Do you have any interfering sources? US Z-Wave is on 900Mhz, but so are old cordless phones, baby monitors, wireless non-wifi security cams, weather stations, etc, etc.

[prax]

One of my modules works all the time. However, the other dimmer and the LED bulb (even though they have been in the SAME spot since I installed them!) do not always respond. It makes no sense to me. 

Do you have any interfering sources? US Z-Wave is on 900Mhz, but so are old cordless phones, baby monitors, wireless non-wifi security cams, weather stations, etc, etc.

I have fairly new (~2 years old) cordless phones and a wifi network, but that's it. I'll give you a more specific description of my setup:

1.) Hub is downstairs
2.) Dimmer 1 is downstairs in room next to Hub
3.) Dimmer 2 is also downstairs, but down hallway (it's not THAT far IMO)
4.) Bulb 1 is upstairs

I think I may have had one time where Dimmer 1 did not work. It's extremely consistent. Dimmer 2 and Bulb 1 sometimes simply do not respond (app shows them as yellow). Other times they will magically work again. LOL

I am wondering do you think something as simple as buying the insteon range extender 2992-222 will work?

[RoChess]

Lot of my powered Z-Wave modules (doesn't work on battery ones) have build in support to also act as a repeater in expanding the mesh network. My own favorite is the Aeon-Labs plug-in appliance module, as I get them for under $20 each by buying them in bulk. In some cases I only use them to monitor energy usage, such as on my fridge/freezer which will never be turned off.

Doing a quick Google search, it seems Insteon calls this "Dual-Band".

So instead of spending $40 on an Insteon repeater/extender, you could spend $43 on an Insteon light switch/dimmer with dual-band support, and add more automated glory to your home.

[kevin1]

Where do you find the bulk z-wave modules for less than $20 each?

[RoChess]

http://www.zwaveproducts.com/Zwave-Bundles/Z-Wave-Home-Control-Kits/Aeon-labs-Energy-Switch-5-Pack-with-HA07-Master-Timer.html

Either you view that as 5x DSC0616 @ $20 each with a $15 HA07, or it comes down to $23/each for the DSC0616 with a free HA07.

I'm actually using the HA07's throughout my home as an easy multi-button scene controller. Because they are a stand-alone master controller they also resell easy on craigslist, which I plan to do once my XAP800 is functional for full home always-on voice control.