on/off z-wave module

[NicoVermeir]

I'm currently looking at on/off modules like these http://www.intellihome.be/nl/z-wave-tkb-built-in-on-off-switch.html

But I got a question on these. If I install those behind a switch it transforms the switch into a z-wave device, both remote and manual control should work. But what is the deal in a room that can switch the light on / off from 3 different switches?

for example, my kitchen has 3 switches to switch on the lights, one at the door to go outside, one at the living room / kitchen door and one at the kitchen / technical space door.

Do I need to install a module at all 3 switches or is it intelligent enough to know when I switch on the lights from a "dumb" switch?

[mvdarend]

Is it a Two-way switch (Hotelschakelaar) type setup? Where switching any one of the three switches will change the current state of the lights?

Then I'm pretty sure you will need only one z-wave module, but as I don't have one of these myself I'm only guessing. You can try emailing the shop, I've found most webshops selling Home automation stuff are pretty good at answering technical questions.

Edit I had a quick look at the technical documentation, and now I'm not so sure. You could show the diagram to an electrician (if you know one) and ask them if it will work in your situation.

[NicoVermeir]

that's the type of setup yes. anyone have experience with these?

[Marco]

Hi NicoVermeir,
You speak about three point for switch the light, is this below your configuration?

http://www.electroyou.it/fidocad/cache/d141208c6581412e45151448142a493ff27140da_3.png

If yes, you need something like this
"Aeon Labs Aeotec DSC26103-ZWUS Z-Wave Micro Switch"
and connect with "diagram:3 way connection"
see pdf
http://www.homeseer.com/pdfs/Aeon%20Labs/MicroSwitch26103.pdf

Marco

[NicoVermeir]

Hi NicoVermeir,
You speak about three point for switch the light, is this below your configuration?

http://www.electroyou.it/fidocad/cache/d141208c6581412e45151448142a493ff27140da_3.png

Marco

I don't know how the internal wiring is, I just know that I have 3 switches that I can use to control the light. I can switch the light on with one, switch it off with another and so on

[Marco]

ok 

Are you sure you want make this by yourself? It is dangerous!!
Anyway, can you confirm to me if are 3 "switch" or 3 "push-button"?

Can you open one and take a photo inside and outside?

Marco

[NicoVermeir]

they are switches and I do now a bit about electricity
I already have one module installed on a light outside of our house. I'll open one up tonight and take a picture (if I remember )

[nolio]

Hi,

Something like that ?

Extract from this article (but in french...) :
http://domotique-info.fr/2014/10/quel-module-zwave-choisir-pour-mon-eclairage/
But you try this too :
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=fr&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdomotique-info.fr%2F2014%2F10%2Fquel-module-zwave-choisir-pour-mon-eclairage%2F

Bye

[bkenobi]

The last option looks like a good one, but it requires a specific wiring that you probably don't have.  I haven't tried this, but wouldn't it be possible to put the controller in the last switch or first light of the string?  Not sure if that would work.

X10 has a different approach but requires using their switches rather than standard non-automation switches.  They have a module that acts as a master and one or more companion switches that basically send a toggle command to the master.  In that case, the master has to be at one end of the 3-way chain for it to work correctly (I can't remember if it's the head or tail though).

[NicoVermeir]

this is the switch
(https://b3ozpa.dm2301.livefilestore.com/y2pCUQXwGfdKGutqdP27BQPqzy_Z_rgeIUPaAWFw6FkCg1cdalo_BqDJ8on4XdBUoMdarMEFqU7rzRSSYJf7yXnQoq3kRSRrwQYFItfSK_Un9UY9g27-ooPQ4rFff1YFpl_/WP_20141205_17_14_28_Pro.jpg)

and the inside:
(https://b3ozpa.dm2301.livefilestore.com/y2pmojDz0eZZleFn3lgwUBxkmp3lefj4rJ5LpRtEgLPvJ12LmUsO8Wa3gNijnhu5F4y1nU0qaYeoidkZ39qhXVVJUHwntLBs6AmbmO6IOueBh-_FWN8FcKZ3r0x09fs1uiX/WP_20141205_17_12_56_Pro.jpg?psid=1)

as far as I can tell I see other wires from the other switches come together here.

the light are 6 lightbulbs in the ceiling by the way

[RoChess]

For build in modules, you have to verify if you have a low-voltage trigger model (such as the Aeon-Lab DSC27103-ZWUS), or a high voltage version like the Philio PAN04 dual-relay. If you specify more exact info on brand/model of the ones you got it is easier to locate datasheet.

Wiring up the high-voltage version is easy, you use the same 3-way (or more) method of house wiring, but instead of having the switching wire provide power to the lightbulb(s), you feed it into the Z-Wave module input contact (S1 or S2 on PAN04). The Z-Wave module will then in turn power the lightbulb(s) via the relay output.

For low-voltage models you have to replace the 3-way wiring, and in most housewiring code structures keep that seperate from high voltage. You can also rely on small battery operated Z-Wave switches, such as the cute Philio PSR04 range (available soon). These then indirectly control the same switch via scenes. I am currently using cheap HAL07 controllers myself, and waiting for the PSR04's to become available.

PS: For switches with build in Z-Wave, there are usually cheap 3-way companion/auxiliary switches available. Those feed direct into the main Z-Wave switch/dimmer (single wire or wireless), example kit -- http://www.amazon.com/GE-Wireless-Lighting-Control-Three-Way/dp/B0035YUOWC

PPS: Just noticed the link in your first post, they actually sell rebranded Philio modules there, such as http://www.intellihome.be/nl/z-wave-tkb-tz04-inbouwschakelaar-2x1-5kw-met-energiemeter.html -- compare that to: http://philio-tech.com/p_switch.htm

You can also see the high voltage connection diagrams there (unfortunately it does not show the 3-way method, but check to make sure those TZ04 modules are in fact PAN04 rebranded ones first, otherwise you would wire it up like: http://www.act-remote.com/PCC/images/fig02.gif with the black wire going to the bulb being the one actually going to the Z-Wave module input).

[Marco]

Hi NicoVermeir,
you have the scheme in my first post.
99 % you need this "Aeon Labs Aeotec DSC26103-ZWUS Z-Wave Micro Switch and use the "diagram:3 way connection", you had 120 V or 220 V?

Install the module behind the other switch with 3 wire (one of three, have 4 wire) and find the 2 lamp wires.
you need to find the "live wire" (I think is the brown in your case) and "neutral wire"(usually the blu).

The better way is find a seller and ask to him.

I don't assume responsability for my advice    .. needed come to your house for find the best way.. you have a free couch? 

Marco

[NicoVermeir]

it's 220V

and I do have a couch, but not a free one
I'll have my brother in law take a look, he's an electrician.

thanks for the help!